Page 20 - Best Of Local Mag July 2023 Edition

CONVERSATIONS WITH
Leonie
Leonie

Hi Tuppence,
(Yes, I know that your family and the people who love you call you Tuppence) I am a case manager for a mining company and also the
Human Resources recruiter for our FiFo employees and I have been following you for years. We need people in all kinds of roles and to be
honest, most resumes are what I call creative writing. I short list people and then we hire someone thinking we are so lucky to have them
and then they can’t change their own shoelaces. My strike out record is getting high and I’m starting to doubt my ability to read people.
This was not the case even just a few years ago. I have seen some of your webinars and I wondered if you have ever done one on dishonesty
and picking a liar? If not, how can you pick a phoney baloney candidate?
Name withheld/Kippa Ring

You can call me Tuppence if you like but you have to promise to love me. I have had this question before. There are indeed ways to
predict the probability that someone is lying. This theory basically relies on Neuro - linguistic Programming (NLP) which some say is a
pseudoscience, but I certainly don’t hold this view at all. I counsel people constantly and work with my students across multiple psychology
courses and the indicators that I am about to discuss have been a very reliable benchmark of human interactions for me. First, I will tell you
what I believe is the most reliable indicator that a person is lying. When we are recalling something, we tend to turn our eyes up and look
to the left because the left-hand side of the brain stores memory. So, if someone is answering a question such as “So, how did you find
working for (that organisation) in London?” and they look up to the left, they are accessing memory and are most likely telling the truth.
Now the right side of the brain is the creative side and if you ask the same question and the person looks up to the right, they are mostly
likely accessing their creative narrative capabilities and trying to come up with a plausible story. I believe that this one strategy is more
reliable than all the others but let’s look at them anyway.

When interviewing people, it is really important to establish rapport. You can do this through Active and attentive listening and observing.
Then it is best to begin the interview with questions that are innocuous such as asking about names, date of birth, address, ability to travel
and so on. This time allows you to create a template in your mind about this particular person’s behaviours and facial expressions when
they are telling the truth. Once you have an idea of how a person responds when they are relaxed and telling the truth, you can slip in a
weighty question such as “How would you describe the management structure at your London organisation?” Then you can compare
their response to this question against the responses to the questions that you already know were most likely the truth.

It is also helpful for questions to be exact in nature. For example, if you asked a person about a certain company where they had only done
work experience for six months, but their CV says that they have worked in upper management for five years, you need to be precise.
Asking someone a question like, “So you worked for this London organisation in the 90’s” would allow the person to truthfully answer “Yes”
and there would be no indicators that they are lying. But, if you asked something directly from their CV like, “I see that you worked for this
London organisation as a Financial Consultant from 1993 until 1998. Is that right?” You would leave no room for anything but the truth and
then you have to cross match the response against the template you have created in your head of when they are telling the truth.
Also, note replies that are indirect. Getting a ”NO, I was not asked to leave my last position!” response is not the same as “Why would I
be asked to leave?” Can you see the difference? One is a direct denial, and one is a kind of hedging response that smacks of guilt and is
probably a refection of deceit.
Also look for long rambling replies to your questions, as these Email: leonieschilling@bigpond.com
kinds of responses are usually being made up on the spot. EG;
If you asked, “Why did you leave your last position?” and they Leonie is a qualified private
launch into a waffle like, “Well, it just wasn’t what I wanted you practitioner at North Lakes
know, it was time to try something new, my mother was sick so
I needed to return to Australia……..……..blah blah blah” They Counselling Services.
are most likely lying as the truth tends to be more succinct and For appointments please phone
if they do this whilst looking up to their right, they are almost 3886 2715 or 0423 653 841
certainly lying through their teeth.
www.northlakescounsellingservices.com.au
Here are some more clues: Saying no while nodding yes and visa
versa, wide or darting eyes, adjusting clothing, moving about ABOUT LEONIE
in the seat, eye twitching or rubbing, dilated pupils, bouncing
a foot, constant face touching, saying ‘um’ or ‘ah’ a lot, sweating Leonie is a qualified counsellor, Trainer and Assessor, published
and covering the mouth with a hand whilst talking. Author, Columnist, Radio Commentator and Justice of the Peace.
Established in 2007, North Lakes Counselling Services has a
And lastly, I would add that a person who lies usually recounts long history of helping couples and individuals manage their
their story out of sequence, sometimes switching from past to relationships and attain their personal goals.
present tense and back again, they will not be consistent in their
statements and may talk in third or second person. But my best
advice is to trust your gut instinct about people. We are all more CATCH LEONIE’S RADIO SHOW “ON THE
Leonie OF THE MONTH AT 11AM ON 99.7 BRIDGE FM
intuitive than we realise. COUCH WITH LEONIE” EVERY THIRD TUESDAY